In defense of traditional grip!.

[Pedro G]

I've seen Dom Framularo a couple of times in the last year, and like we all know by now, he is totally in to match grip. He said that traditional grip is DEAD! and one of his reason is that when you play with trad. you only use 3 or 4 of the muscles of the arm and with match you use all.
Maybe I'm crazy but I think this is a great advantage. If you could play with almost the same speed and volume with 75% less muscles...well...
I fell comfortable playing with both techniques but when I play with trad. I feel like the stick is doing all the work and my hand barely moves.
I belive that in these days, we should be able to play with both techniques (as well as open and cross-handed), and there are situations when one works better than the other, but in my opinion, traditional grip is very much alive.

[peter c]

Dom says a lot of things.

It's clear to me, however
and I do NOT use the tech-
nique, except for 'show'
and still for pressed-rolls,
that you are right, Pedro.
It's still alive. Most of
the guys here still use it.

Again, I don't prefer it
but everyone makes their
choice for their reasons.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

[five eight]

Traditional grip (AKA conventional grip and military grip) is not so much uncomfortable for me as awkward yet I use it 10% of the time. There are great players on both sides of the fence. When you've got a master deploying that grip like Louie Bellson or Weckl or you-know-who from Zappa's late 70s band it sounds great and looks great. I think part of what makes drummers interesting to watch is the physical drama of arm movement whereas horn players, keyboardists and guitarists use only their fingers to play. Obviously many stage performers have discovered ways to exaggerate the minutiae of these movements for the sake of showmanship.

As a matched grip player I wished I used the trad grip more. It's a part of drum history that's dying out; I revere that tradition but realize our chosen craft must change in order to evolve. I admire the players who keep it alive but wonder how much of the majority will be using it in 2050.

[jonthibault]

I used to mess with trad, but started using it seriously after studying with Steve and getting the finger control thing down. I barely ever play anymore (apartment dweller, no band), but I practice with traditional grip and use it when I do play. It just feels comfortable for some reason, very relaxed. I notice my doubles are just as good (if not better) with trad, but my singles are still a little faster around the toms with matched. And the trad backbeat is just as loud as matched if you're doing rimshots.

[Steve Holmes]

You guys have heard me say this stuff before.
I've never seen the great matched grip players achieve the same flow on the kit that the trad grip players do. I'll go one further. Bear with me here, I'm generalizing (everything has an exception keep in mind).

Matched grip guys = singles guys.
Trad grip guys = doubles guys.

Dennis. Novak. Peart. Bozzio. Wackerman. Single stroke oriented playing for the most part. (Yes Novak switches to trad grip rarely for doubles stuff and straight ahead stuff).
Funny thing no wonder Dom switched, he plays mostly singles anyways, he's just coming out of the closet and switching to his grip that facilitates his already existing singles-oriented playing.

Weckl. Smith. Virgil. Vinnie. Doubles guys. Doubles is they key to achieving the flow. They obviously can play singles but it's not mainly how they spell their words in their sentences. They spell mostly with doubles, if you get my analogy.

I'll go even further.
Singles = odd. Odd = rigid by nature. I can't really say that the great singles guys FLOW. Fast, great, this, that, insert compliment here, but not FLOWING like Weck and the rest of the guys.
Doubles = even. Even = more fluent by nature.

It's just not possible to achieve true flow on the kit without doubles. Trad grip is THE BEST GRIP for this kind of playing. The best out there have shown us that.
This opinion is as a result of many years of trad grip study, meditation, obsession, practice, whatever. I think the players out there support my theory.

[sashal3]

Steve...All that I can say is...AMEN!!!! I've argued this with some of my peers for quite some time...It is definitely the FLOW. I personally play trad. grip 99.9% of the time. I don't even think about it....when I grab sticks I just naturally hold them that way. I even hold my fork this way when eating steak(obviously using right hand to cut)....I have so much more finesse with trad. grip. I'm not saying one is better than the other,I'm just saying that it works for me. Whatever you feel comfortable with....Use it! Your post absolutely resonated with me....

[shedder]

preach on!

[peter c]

My reasons for matched
have to do with strength
and lateral dexterity.

Add to that a uniformity,
which I prefer, when I
approach the kit.

Isn't it a fact in history
that there have been more
traditional than matched
players? As a result, you
will hear more of them and
in more situations.

Akira Jimbo plays matched
and I think he flows as
good as any drummer. I
think he's a good example
of what the future might
hold for matched.

The drummer chooses
the type of music he
wants to make. If it's
power-driven, he's go-
ing to gravitate towards
the single-stroke because
the music is dictating
it but if the music has
a sense of delicacy, he
will adjust, like Akira
has, in my opinion.

I can sound very single-
stroke oriented but I
also move to double-
strokes, if I feel that
they paint the more im-
pressionist view of the
scenery I'm attempting
to depict, if you get
my meaning.

They are both there for
us. I used traditional
for years and I am now
matched. I'm not saying
that's going to be right
for you guys. You have
to decide what is best.

I have, for me.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 15, 2003 12:04 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

[FlamTriplet]

I agree with Dom. The less muscles you use, the more work those muscles must do. In matched grip, you use a lot of muscles and they share in the work.
And more muscles equals more power an endurance.

Try running only using your ankles, or toes. That's an extreme scenario but it is similar.

Traditional grip was created to play on snare drums that were slung around your neck for military bands. The drums were at an angle, and the only way to keep a tight line was to hold the stick funny.

If you like to wank the stick with your thumb, then traditional is cool. You can get a lot of speed and power with your thumb in trad grip. Your thumb muscle is not used for the stroke in matched, it's used to keep the grip and stick stable

It all depends on how comfortable you are with your technique. I play matched 99.9999% of the time.

[FlamTriplet]

IMO no grip is better or worse for anything. It all depends on the player. But i have to say that trad grip for jazz is very comfortable for comping the left hand. Someday, I'll force myself to play a whole jazz gig in trad grip. It just might take me to the next level.

But rock and roll = matched. If you need to play loud backbeats, especially with no rimshot, matched will do it for you.

As far as singles, it is easier to move around the kit. And when using a lot of doubles around the kit, you don't have to move around as quickly.

Traditional grip does look cooler though.